Dr. Cheryl Cohen Greene In Bed with Eva
Cripping Up Sex: So on this episode of In Bed with Eva, we are talking to Dr. Cheryl Cohen. Tell us your name, pronouns, and a bit about what you do!
Cheryl: My name is Cheryl Cohen Greene. I'm a she and the work I do is not called a "sex surrogate." we prefer Surrogate Partner because what we do is so much more than just SEX. I work with clients who are experiencing problems with their sexual functioning, mostly men. For instance: Lack of erection when they want one, loss of an erection, rapid ejaculation, little or no sexual experience, delayed ejaculation, etc. I also work with women who have had little or no sexual experience, have been molested, had very little or no nurturing as children, and don't know how to relate to sexual advances should they receive them and who need renurturing. And women who have poor self-esteem because of our cultural biases about what is beautiful. From the beginning, their therapist and I explain that this is short-term therapy and we are going to take gradual intimate steps to help them be aware of the anxiety they bring to sexual intimacy. For instance, the first time we meet I check to see if they need to use the restroom. They often do. I explain that using it is the first step to relaxing so they can be "present" for our check-in. Then I ask them what brought them into sex therapy and what they hope to accomplish. I've already spoken to their therapist, but it's our first time meeting and I want to hear what they say to me. My sessions are two hours and many people who are very nervous take a whole hour or sometimes two because they want me to know everything about their anxiety. If after a half-hour I see they are less anxious I suggest we go into the bedroom, undress, and lay on the bed where I take them through a course of relaxation experiences. I do this because when I was trained I learned many people feel if they and their partner are naked that means they are going to have "SEX" and I explain that the point of this experience is to let them know that it's not going to happen and they often start to slightly relax. Each week we briefly check in and I ask how they felt about our last session and if they had anything they were concerned about. During the first session, I have done a sensual touch over their entire body and I've explained the 90% of the men I've worked with don't get erections, so they can relax even more. I then explore the backside of their bodies then the front (which is more vulnerable). In the second session they get to explore my body (without the intention of getting me aroused.) but first we relax, belly breathe, and move into their touching me. Unless I really don't like what they are doing, I save my feedback for after. I'm often surprised when clients who have had very little intimate contact are wonderful touchers.
Cripping Up Sex: That's very interesting and important work! How did you get started with it?
Cheryl: A close friend gave me a book called "Surrogate Wife" by a former Masters and Johnson surrogate. She told me she thought I'd be good at the description of what the Surrogate described in the book. We'd known each other for a long time and she knew me very well. I'd been working as a nude artist’s model at several colleges in the Bay Area mostly for the money, which was about $3.50-$4.00 per hour, compared to what artist’s models make nowadays, which is closer to $90 per hour. At the same time, I'd also been to a meeting about the new sex switchboard in SF called San Francisco Sex Information that was about to start training volunteers to answer their phones. I met a woman who had just taken the training and she was able to get me into their next training. This was in November of 1973. I took the training which took place at the now-closed Erotic Art Museum on Powell St. It was an amazing setting. I explored all the erotic art every week before class and that's when I saw Betty Dodson's beautiful drawings of couples making love in all sorts of ways and Betty masturbating with a Hitachi magic wand. During the training, I met fellow attendees who were gay, bi, straight, trans, etc., watched lots of sex-positive films by the National Sex Forum, and had my mind blown.
Cripping Up Sex: That's so cool and the Hitachi magic wand is my personal favorite! Tell me more about how people find you and what the process is like to get started!
Cheryl: People find me through their therapist. I don't advertise. Because of the movie, “The Sessions” many people call me and if they aren't in therapy I refer them to a great therapist with whom I work. If they are already working with a therapist I speak with them to explain how I work. I let them know I'll be calling them after each of my sessions with their client and give them details about what took place and what was said.
Cripping Up Sex: That's a great way to work! How do you maintain professional boundaries, as this work is very intimate and unique?
Cheryl: I'm married to a man I've known for 42 years. He trusts that my work is not going to change the way I feel about him, and our monogamous relationship. Also, when I feel and hear that the clients are feeling strong feelings for me, I tell them that's good, and in the future when they meet a partner they can have a full relationship with they will truly experience a loving relationship e.g., They will be able to sleep overnight, go away together, etc... By the way, I mention my partner off and on throughout the time we are working with each other.
Cripping Up Sex: Exactly! I also think most people have a very narrow view of what sex is or can be. I know you also work with a lot of disabled people. Were you nervous the first few times you worked with a disabled client? If so, how did you hide those nerves, so it didn’t affect your work?
Cheryl: Yes, I was nervous, but mostly I was concerned about hurting him. I asked lots of questions about how he would transfer from his wheelchair, where he could feel (he was paraplegic) and I asked if it would be OK if I explored his whole body and he said he hoped I would. But first, we did some relaxation breathing, like I would with any client, and moved on from there. I was never so anxious that things became uneasy.
Cripping Up Sex: I'm always a big fan of asking any and all questions to make everyone feels more comfortable. Let’s talk about Mark, who the movie “The Sessions” is about. What was it like working with him?
Cheryl: He was very fragile. He weighed 70 lbs. and was about 4ft. Polio is a devastating disease and when he acquired it at age 6 the treatment he received did not include rotating his head so it was stuck looking to his right. I've often wondered if that was the case because his neck muscles were weak and his head just stayed that way. He had a great caustic sense of humor, and one day he said, I have to believe in God because I have to have someone to blame for what happened to me. I'm an ex-Catholic so that really made me laugh. The one time I hurt him was in the first session. I was undressing him and as I was taking his shirt off, I did it too quickly and he screamed. I jumped back and said, "What did I do?” He told me his fingernail was caught in his shirt and he was afraid I would hurt him. I adjusted his shirt sleeve and very slowly and carefully continued taking his shirt off. When I was finished undressing him, I told him I had a suggestion and that was SCREAMING isn't sexy so in the future when I or his future partners were undressing him, he should have his attendant cut his nails. And if that doesn't happen, let his partner know to go slow.
Cripping Up Sex: Lol, excellent advice. I like to ask my disabled guests this, but I’m super interested in your response too. Why do you think sex and disability are so taboo?
Cheryl: I believe our culture needs lots of work on relating Disability with Sexuality. Look at how many women are unhappy with the type of bodies they have. And men too. I've worked with a man who had his penis enlarged and it looked like a gherkin pickle with bumps all over it. I told him some condoms have little bumps on the outside for women's pleasure and his penis may very well do the same thing. He found that idea interesting. Then I said if a partner ever makes a comment about the bumps he should mention it's for her pleasure and leave it at that.
Cripping Up Sex: Where would you like to see society’s view on sex and disability go?
Cheryl: We need more TV series with people with disabilities who are in relationships and make them positive. But the people who write scripts have to be more conscious of this topic. As well as the difference between acquired and congenital disabilities. I [also] know of a television/movie star who has a son with CP. He and his wife called me about who I'd recommend (Surrogate) to come help them because he wants to explore his sexuality. I asked a few but they were either, like myself, too old or not willing to work with him. I'd like [people] to listen to and really pay attention to people they meet with disabilities. Speak with them and see if they are people you have a common interest with, just as you would with another non-disabled person, and not just write them off because of their disability.
Cripping Up Sex: I so agree. Well, that was my last question. Is there anything else you would like our readers to know?
Cheryl: I worked with a disabled quadriplegic man whose attitude was very positive. He had an apartment set up so he was very comfortable and his bed had overhanging rings he could put his forearm through and adjust his body. He had a gallon of water in a container that had a very long straw in it and was accessible so he could stay hydrated. He also had the ability to use special mitts he'd slide his hands into and was able to cook some simple dishes. I've thought about him many times over the years because his attitude towards his life made all the difference when I'd compared him to other people I've worked with. I found him very attractive and I could imagine being his partner. He really opened my mind to that.
Cripping Up Sex: That's an excellent way to end. Thanks so much for coming to chat with me! Have a good rest of your day.
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